Comments on: Everyday Socialism – Police, Fire, and Roads http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/ Capitalism and Liberty Thu, 02 Feb 2012 13:49:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: J http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-11723 J Fri, 16 Dec 2011 21:18:32 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-11723 "You really do believe they (govt) are frugal, intelligent, and looking out for you." This statement has no merit. 40 hour work week is government looking out for you. Minimum wage is government looking out for you. Frugalism hates minimum wage. Frugalism loves slave labor but government looks out for you and doesn't allow slavery. The government ensures safety, not corporations. Intelligence is not guessing games. Australia's universal healthcare is far more affordable and costs 1.5% in taxes. My relatives in Canada pay $90/month for health insurance. My parents pay $15,000 for a $10,000 deductible. What a joke. My coworker who moved from Canada thinking she would make more money, not only makes less money but has to continue to work to pay for health insurance, while her coworkers in Canada are far better off. “You really do believe they (govt) are frugal, intelligent, and looking out for you.” This statement has no merit. 40 hour work week is government looking out for you. Minimum wage is government looking out for you. Frugalism hates minimum wage. Frugalism loves slave labor but government looks out for you and doesn’t allow slavery. The government ensures safety, not corporations. Intelligence is not guessing games. Australia’s universal healthcare is far more affordable and costs 1.5% in taxes. My relatives in Canada pay $90/month for health insurance. My parents pay $15,000 for a $10,000 deductible. What a joke. My coworker who moved from Canada thinking she would make more money, not only makes less money but has to continue to work to pay for health insurance, while her coworkers in Canada are far better off.

]]> By: J http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-11721 J Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:39:55 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-11721 I agree that we "criminalize way too many things in our society, which creates an ever increasing need for more government and police." However, the Conservatives are to blame. Marijuana and abortion are perfect examples. Conservatives pander to religious groups to get their one issue voters who want to force their religion on the masses. These advocate of ignorance-only reproduction (abstinence-only) apparently think people don't need to know about contraception and should reproduce as many as "God will allow. Government is paying for 48% of all childbirths. Then, Conservatives want to complain about social programs helping these people survive. The number one reason for abortion is poverty. While pregnancy is no longer the number one cause of death for women, reproduction is still 12.5 times more dangerous than professional abortion. Funny that it is the people who call themselves "prolife" that are trying to redefine life and bomb and murder anyone who doesn't say amen to their agenda. How do guns improve this "Prolife" situation? Legalized marijuana is the only product in my state that is 100% locally-grown. Like alcohol, it is far more safe when legal. While jobs have left, marijuana is something people can make good money on. I have never used it myself but I know of numerous innovators who float their small businesses with marijuana. Conservatives are the people who rather spend money on prisons for marijuana sellers. "Why should all of society pay for pavement in the rural areas if there is no need there and they do not benefit from them?" Rural areas vote for conservatives and that would quickly change if you don't have good farm to market roads for them. Again, I'm thankful that we no longer look like a third world country. Your efficiency statements for roads have no merit. I agree that we “criminalize way too many things in our society, which creates an ever increasing need for more government and police.” However, the Conservatives are to blame. Marijuana and abortion are perfect examples.

Conservatives pander to religious groups to get their one issue voters who want to force their religion on the masses. These advocate of ignorance-only reproduction (abstinence-only) apparently think people don’t need to know about contraception and should reproduce as many as “God will allow. Government is paying for 48% of all childbirths. Then, Conservatives want to complain about social programs helping these people survive. The number one reason for abortion is poverty. While pregnancy is no longer the number one cause of death for women, reproduction is still 12.5 times more dangerous than professional abortion. Funny that it is the people who call themselves “prolife” that are trying to redefine life and bomb and murder anyone who doesn’t say amen to their agenda. How do guns improve this “Prolife” situation?

Legalized marijuana is the only product in my state that is 100% locally-grown. Like alcohol, it is far more safe when legal. While jobs have left, marijuana is something people can make good money on. I have never used it myself but I know of numerous innovators who float their small businesses with marijuana. Conservatives are the people who rather spend money on prisons for marijuana sellers.

“Why should all of society pay for pavement in the rural areas if there is no need there and they do not benefit from them?” Rural areas vote for conservatives and that would quickly change if you don’t have good farm to market roads for them. Again, I’m thankful that we no longer look like a third world country. Your efficiency statements for roads have no merit.

]]> By: J http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-11720 J Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:03:29 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-11720 I agree that the role of gov’t is to protect us from coercion. Let's talk about coersion, better yet, let Albert Einstein talk about it. He speaks almost perfectly for people protesting Wall Street: "Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of the smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.... Production is carried on for profit, not for use. There is no provision that all those able and willing to work will always be in a position to find employment; an "army of unemployed" almost always exists. The worker is constantly in fear of losing his job. Since unemployed and poorly paid workers do not provide a profitable market, the production of consumers' goods is restricted, and great hardship is the consequence. Technological progress frequently results in more unemployment rather than in an easing of the burden of work for all. The profit motive, in conjunction with competition among capitalists, is responsible for an instability in the accumulation and utilization of capital which leads to increasingly severe depressions. Unlimited competition leads to a huge waste of labor, and to that crippling of the social consciousness of individuals which I mentioned before." I agree that the role of gov’t is to protect us from coercion. Let’s talk about coersion, better yet, let Albert Einstein talk about it. He speaks almost perfectly for people protesting Wall Street: “Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of the smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights…. Production is carried on for profit, not for use. There is no provision that all those able and willing to work will always be in a position to find employment; an “army of unemployed” almost always exists. The worker is constantly in fear of losing his job. Since unemployed and poorly paid workers do not provide a profitable market, the production of consumers’ goods is restricted, and great hardship is the consequence. Technological progress frequently results in more unemployment rather than in an easing of the burden of work for all. The profit motive, in conjunction with competition among capitalists, is responsible for an instability in the accumulation and utilization of capital which leads to increasingly severe depressions. Unlimited competition leads to a huge waste of labor, and to that crippling of the social consciousness of individuals which I mentioned before.”

]]> By: J http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-11719 J Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:00:03 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-11719 I've lived in countries with privatized roads. Not only were the roads poorly maintained, but each mile was owned by a different group, so we had to stop every mile to pay a toll. Prior to FDR's social programs that kept people from starving to death, my state didn't have much of anything for roads. FDR created 7,000 miles in my state, that is 10 times across my state or from Seattle to Florida AND BACK! At the start of these projects, few people knew how to drive. By the way, the end of WWI is when our Great Depression started because of a lack of demand for mining, timber and grain. FDR changed our country like no other President ever has and we became the number one country in the world after WWII. Interesting that Conservatives would have let all of Europe be defeated by the Nazi's. Thank FDR for freedom today. I’ve lived in countries with privatized roads. Not only were the roads poorly maintained, but each mile was owned by a different group, so we had to stop every mile to pay a toll. Prior to FDR’s social programs that kept people from starving to death, my state didn’t have much of anything for roads. FDR created 7,000 miles in my state, that is 10 times across my state or from Seattle to Florida AND BACK! At the start of these projects, few people knew how to drive. By the way, the end of WWI is when our Great Depression started because of a lack of demand for mining, timber and grain. FDR changed our country like no other President ever has and we became the number one country in the world after WWII. Interesting that Conservatives would have let all of Europe be defeated by the Nazi’s. Thank FDR for freedom today.

]]> By: J http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-11718 J Fri, 16 Dec 2011 18:37:27 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-11718 John, appears to think one inch of asphalt will stand up just as well as 8 inches. You probably attended public school and without you wouldn't even be able to use the computer. Being able to read should only be for those who can afford to pay for private schools and colleges, not. John, appears to be another person who care to only look as far as his own narrow vision. John, appears to think one inch of asphalt will stand up just as well as 8 inches. You probably attended public school and without you wouldn’t even be able to use the computer. Being able to read should only be for those who can afford to pay for private schools and colleges, not. John, appears to be another person who care to only look as far as his own narrow vision.

]]> By: J http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-11717 J Fri, 16 Dec 2011 18:31:50 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-11717 LOL! Jason thinks he doesn't have to know anything to make a guess on it. Jason, your post points out exactly what I wanted to share with people about capitalism taking away roads, education, protection and limiting liberty. LOL! Jason thinks he doesn’t have to know anything to make a guess on it. Jason, your post points out exactly what I wanted to share with people about capitalism taking away roads, education, protection and limiting liberty.

]]> By: Why Do Liberals Think Only Government Can Provide Essential Services? | The Proud Profiteer http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-1285 Why Do Liberals Think Only Government Can Provide Essential Services? | The Proud Profiteer Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:40:27 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-1285 [...] that they would not establish services to handle fire protection. If you’ve ready this post, you know fire protection could be provided by your insurance [...] [...] that they would not establish services to handle fire protection. If you’ve ready this post, you know fire protection could be provided by your insurance [...]

]]> By: jenna http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-775 jenna Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:55:12 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-775 Great debate you guys! Well, right up to the point where walt jumped in with his lovely salutation. Walt, people in apartments do pay property taxes, as they are most often considered in the cost of rent and passed on to them through the landlords, usually when property taxes are raised, rents will also be raised. Ever notice that? James brings up some really great points, many of which I agree with. What is overlooked is that many smaller towns and municipalities have volunteer fire departments, some even have voluteer police or share police with another town, it is done in a few towns in my state. They also rely on the state troopers/police to fill the void and it has resulted in increased crime in those areas. I might also mention that gun permits are easier to get than a fishing license here and I do not know many who do not carry, including my own family members. This does not seem to deter the rising crime, much higher in the areas with little police patrol. Something that nobody else has brought up is ambulance service and medics. A family member is a medic, he works for a non profit ambulance service. He is paid, but there are no profits being taken by the company he works for. Not once has he ask someone what insurance they have before working to save them. Anyone that they encounter that is in need has a right to their services and they are obligated to do everything possible to help them. The government already has had it's hand in medical services for a long time, through the federal funds recieved for ambulance and rescue. When health insurance companies were first started, they too were non-profit. The people were paid that worked for them, but there were no multi-million dollar ceo pay and bonuses. It was not until they turned to profits and escalating pay that health care itself became unaffordable to everyone. I just hope that the bill, if it passes, is not just another give away to the insurance companies, but it sounds as though it is. Great debate you guys! Well, right up to the point where walt jumped in with his lovely salutation. Walt, people in apartments do pay property taxes, as they are most often considered in the cost of rent and passed on to them through the landlords, usually when property taxes are raised, rents will also be raised. Ever notice that?
James brings up some really great points, many of which I agree with. What is overlooked is that many smaller towns and municipalities have volunteer fire departments, some even have voluteer police or share police with another town, it is done in a few towns in my state. They also rely on the state troopers/police to fill the void and it has resulted in increased crime in those areas. I might also mention that gun permits are easier to get than a fishing license here and I do not know many who do not carry, including my own family members. This does not seem to deter the rising crime, much higher in the areas with little police patrol. Something that nobody else has brought up is ambulance service and medics. A family member is a medic, he works for a non profit ambulance service. He is paid, but there are no profits being taken by the company he works for. Not once has he ask someone what insurance they have before working to save them. Anyone that they encounter that is in need has a right to their services and they are obligated to do everything possible to help them. The government already has had it’s hand in medical services for a long time, through the federal funds recieved for ambulance and rescue. When health insurance companies were first started, they too were non-profit. The people were paid that worked for them, but there were no multi-million dollar ceo pay and bonuses. It was not until they turned to profits and escalating pay that health care itself became unaffordable to everyone. I just hope that the bill, if it passes, is not just another give away to the insurance companies, but it sounds as though it is.

]]> By: Jason http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-701 Jason Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:36:55 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-701 Walt, Thanks. Come back and read some more. Would love to have some more of your enlightening comments. Walt,

Thanks. Come back and read some more. Would love to have some more of your enlightening comments.

]]> By: Walt Kone http://www.proudprofiteer.com/2010/02/everyday-socialism-police-fire-and-roads/comment-page-1/#comment-699 Walt Kone Tue, 02 Mar 2010 23:25:53 +0000 http://www.proudprofiteer.com/?p=1412#comment-699 You're a fucking moron. Socialism is not a re-distribution of wealth, that's a term made up by right-wing politicians and pundits. Socialism is any service provided by the government with tax payer dollars. Sure, police and fire are covered by property tax--but people living in apartments don't pay a property tax and are still covered. You’re a fucking moron. Socialism is not a re-distribution of wealth, that’s a term made up by right-wing politicians and pundits. Socialism is any service provided by the government with tax payer dollars. Sure, police and fire are covered by property tax–but people living in apartments don’t pay a property tax and are still covered.

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